Cyprus-Forum.com

[pitsilos]

go for it mister

ps don't forget to post some pictures and eyewitness statements so we scrutinize them. if you haven't got any invent some anyway

[askimwos]

I am not sure about Kikapu,but it looks like myself,Mrfromng,and Zan were within a few kilometres of the incident as it happened. Zan was the closest.I missed the bit where he talked about visiting the house,so I can't say why he was there.But please try to remember these were very unusual and terrfying times for all of us,as we were convinced the GCs were about to massacre the lot of us,wherever we were.
I told earlier elsewhere how my father gave me a hand grenade,and told me to blow myself and my mother and sisters up if the GCs came to the door,before he came back from fighting at the walls...Please try to imagine the state of terror we were all in during those terrible weeks...

Zan...My father was one of the area commanders,and in his unit they had one brengun,a few sten guns,some granades and pistols ,and the rest had shotguns as you say.We were not as poorly armed as you recall.
Of course I don't know what the defenders at Kumsal had,or even if there were any defenders there.And I think it is pointless and probably impossible to try to work out how events unfolded on that tragic night at Kumsal.But going on what we know for sure here is what I believe happened:
150 GC irregulars under ovreall command of a Greek Officer,went to clear Kumsal of TCs.They had no idea what to expect,and was hence very tense and apprehensive. The Unit which came to the Ilhan house probably contained some die hard EOKA gunmen who lost the plot when they realised this was the house of a Turkish officer.There would have been photos of Mr Ilhan in army uniform on the walls.They started indiscriminate shooting whatever moved around the house,then panicked and run away,probably thinking that they would be in trouble with their own commander,especially if that was Tasos Mavrou and what we hear about him being a very principles and honourable person is true.
Remeber that hundreds of TCs were taken prisoner at Kumsal that night,and all were released unharmed a few days later.

So when TMT found out they saw this as a priceless opportunity for propaganda,and for getting the Turkish Army contingent,which was still at their barracks and uninvolved,involved as soon as possible,and even perhaps hoping that would drag Turkey into the action as well.Turkey at the time was run by Ismet Inonu who was a dove and not a hawke...

The master manipulator,journalist Omer Sami Cosar was sent in to do his work,and he himself is on the record for saying that he did arrange the bath scene for maximum propaganda effect...

As I said earlier,I do not believe we should be looking for excuses or blame appostioning in this terrible crime against humanity.Cypriots,people born and raised in our homeland were responsible for this dstardly act and the ensuing propaganda war,and for that we have all been diminished and wounded as human beings.

But unlike MR I believe we should be able to talk about this in a civilised and constructive way,and empathise with each other,in order to build understanding and trust.I know it is difficult and I am trying to hold back my tears as I write this,but the way forward is not via sweeping unpleasant things under the carpet...

Now excuse we while I go and eat to calm my nerves...

Although one can never be 100% sure until people come out and talk openly, it seems that Birkibrisli's scenario is the most likely and it surely ties up with the info provided both from people that took part to the operation as well as the interview of the TMT photographer. As for the eye witness whose version of events were quoted by "T_C" I don't consider this a trustworthy version as he has propably been dictated to say these things. Afterall we have the confession of the photographer himself who arranged the bodys acting on the orders of TMT.

[zan]

I am not sure about Kikapu,but it looks like myself,Mrfromng,and Zan were within a few kilometres of the incident as it happened. Zan was the closest.I missed the bit where he talked about visiting the house,so I can't say why he was there.But please try to remember these were very unusual and terrfying times for all of us,as we were convinced the GCs were about to massacre the lot of us,wherever we were.
I told earlier elsewhere how my father gave me a hand grenade,and told me to blow myself and my mother and sisters up if the GCs came to the door,before he came back from fighting at the walls...Please try to imagine the state of terror we were all in during those terrible weeks...

Zan...My father was one of the area commanders,and in his unit they had one brengun,a few sten guns,some granades and pistols ,and the rest had shotguns as you say.We were not as poorly armed as you recall.
Of course I don't know what the defenders at Kumsal had,or even if there were any defenders there.And I think it is pointless and probably impossible to try to work out how events unfolded on that tragic night at Kumsal.But going on what we know for sure here is what I believe happened:
150 GC irregulars under ovreall command of a Greek Officer,went to clear Kumsal of TCs.They had no idea what to expect,and was hence very tense and apprehensive. The Unit which came to the Ilhan house probably contained some die hard EOKA gunmen who lost the plot when they realised this was the house of a Turkish officer.There would have been photos of Mr Ilhan in army uniform on the walls.They started indiscriminate shooting whatever moved around the house,then panicked and run away,probably thinking that they would be in trouble with their own commander,especially if that was Tasos Mavrou and what we hear about him being a very principles and honourable person is true.
Remeber that hundreds of TCs were taken prisoner at Kumsal that night,and all were released unharmed a few days later.

So when TMT found out they saw this as a priceless opportunity for propaganda,and for getting the Turkish Army contingent,which was still at their barracks and uninvolved,involved as soon as possible,and even perhaps hoping that would drag Turkey into the action as well.Turkey at the time was run by Ismet Inonu who was a dove and not a hawke...

The master manipulator,journalist Omer Sami Cosar was sent in to do his work,and he himself is on the record for saying that he did arrange the bath scene for maximum propaganda effect...

As I said earlier,I do not believe we should be looking for excuses or blame appostioning in this terrible crime against humanity.Cypriots,people born and raised in our homeland were responsible for this dstardly act and the ensuing propaganda war,and for that we have all been diminished and wounded as human beings.

But unlike MR I believe we should be able to talk about this in a civilised and constructive way,and empathise with each other,in order to build understanding and trust.I know it is difficult and I am trying to hold back my tears as I write this,but the way forward is not via sweeping unpleasant things under the carpet...

Now excuse we while I go and eat to calm my nerves...

It does not take much to come to a sensible conclusion in all this as you have here but some of the comments of the GCs on this thread are just downright stupidity.

My dad recalls how badly we needed guns and how many people blew themselves up wth badly made ones.

[Viewpoint]

Do you think rape on a bed makes it any less of a rape? Wise up people no amount of excuses will lessen the blow that these people were brutally murdered by GCs, the cold and callous comments on this forum have sickening to say the least, at one stage you had these people shooting themselves for propaganda purposes against the ho so clean GC image....man how can people stoop so low.

[pitsilos]

vips settle down and stop taking your imagination around the block. I suggest you reign it in and zip it up.

this is the 21st century and everything must be scrutinized to the max in order to go forward.

believing incorrect statements, while not denying gcs killed the poor family, may they rest in peace, we are questioning the manner it was used as propaganda, which in itself should also be a crime. this does not make the shameful killings any whiter.

the story from the eyewitness along with the picture do not hold water, that does not mean a gcs did not commit the murders.

now settle down and take your daily medication as per the doctors description.

[Alexios]

I suggest we give up on this thread.No doubt the family was killed by G/Cs.No doubt, due to the horrific photos taken, children involved etc,the case has attended much more publicity than other, much worse murders, where there is absolute no excuse whatsoever, involving much bigger numbers of innocent people.May they all rest in peace.

[Viewpoint]

I suggest we give up on this thread.No doubt the family was killed by G/Cs.No doubt, due to the horrific photos taken, children involved etc,the case has attended much more publicity than other, much worse murders, where there is absolute no excuse whatsoever, involving much bigger numbers of innocent people.May they all rest in peace.

At last sanity prevails thank you Alexios.

[zan]

I suggest we give up on this thread.No doubt the family was killed by G/Cs.No doubt, due to the horrific photos taken, children involved etc,the case has attended much more publicity than other, much worse murders, where there is absolute no excuse whatsoever, involving much bigger numbers of innocent people.May they all rest in peace.

At last sanity prevails thank you Alexios.

Dito!

[pitsilos]

I suggest we give up on this thread.No doubt the family was killed by G/Cs.No doubt, due to the horrific photos taken, children involved etc,the case has attended much more publicity than other, much worse murders, where there is absolute no excuse whatsoever, involving much bigger numbers of innocent people.May they all rest in peace.

alexios all murders need to come forward and be scrutinized, sweeping them under the carpet they will fester for years to come.

i like to see something along south afrika with their commisions, only then the cyprus nation will go forward.

atleast what we have seen so far with this thread and the cold blooded murders of innocent people was condemnation and it also highlighted the method it was used for propaganda purposes.

the cyprus problem needs some kind of closure. but as long as you have blind fools running around the cyprus problem will fester for a long time. is that what you want to see?

[Alexios]

If you have read my previous posts, you would have realized i want nothing of the sort.Infact i agree strongly with you.What i meant is that to my opinion, between us,we have exchausted the subject and there is no need going on about it.If, ofcourse some other member has something useful to add, something that would enlighten the case with facts and not sensationalist posts then surely he/she should add any comments.
I would welcome a commision in the lines of South Africa.