Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Sorry Kikapu I meant to put my self in the 66.666% bracket as a Turk and cocked it right up, anyway the moment has gone now.

As to VPs sarcasm. I read it as him saying that TPap is yet again pushing us further away and justifying partition once again. Even Bir has stolen our views on this as his own now in saying that the RoC is not doing enough to make unification a reality. That is what me and VP have been saying all along. How can we make that any clearer. I can always ask Bir to translate but I don't trust that he will not take our ideas and pretend he said them

Sorry Zan, but you're talking about one thing, and I'm talking something else. We have gotten our wires all crossed up.

I agree with both you and VP, that the RoC is not doing enough, so where is the demand and the yelling and shouting from Talat, to demand the talks to continue, so that we can all achieve some positive results. Instead Talat is talking about his share of the oil revenue and trying to make deals for direct trade, and being the President of a self declared state, within the country of Cyprus.. Is he for real, or what. No wonder PapaD does not make any efforts, for what.?

Lets get the island running as a team, before we can talk about how to benefit the Cypriots with oil money. Lets build the island as a United people. Let's stop wasting fucking time. Enough with the "look who dick is bigger" competition. Stop with all the BS. Stop with all the games. Just STOP.

Now we are getting back to the crux of the problem........HOW! Unless a common ground can be found and concessions from both sides come at once then it cannot happen. Neither side can afford to lose control of the situation. What I have said all along is that direct trade is good for both sides in that money will be the provider of a solution and not the politics as a whole. Once the whole island can trade and attract tourism then the businessmen will soon start to talk to each other and then, as far as I am concerned, nothing will stop them. This is the level playing field that VP and I have asked for because to open the links now would be a gross mis-justice for the TC businessmen. TPap has set his sights on winning in both fields and has done all he can to prevent TCs getting a foothold.

[Viewpoint]

Take note the EU UN USA........another step forward for us partionists, thank god for Tasos, may he be elected for another term.

Ah yes, spoken like a true partitionist, and all this BS from you and Zan about not wanting a partition, but a settlement. Don't forget, it appears, you already have a "partition" in the "TRNC".

66.666% Anatolian and 33.333% Turkish Cypriots.

I put you in the 33.333% column.

Kikapu do you have family in living in the TRNC?

Some, from my mothers side. Why.?

Do they know who your are? maybe you can PM me and I can go visit them, find out more about you.

VP, are you serious. My whole life has been an open book on this forum, for everyone to read. You know more about me, than any relative of mine in Cyprus.

On the other hand, we know very little about you. Why don't you open up VP. We don't need to know where you live, or where you work, or what you do. No names, no easily identifiable statements. It would make you more interesting, if we had some idea, what kind of a person you are. Please don't take this the wrong way VP, but you hide everything about yourself, as if you were a criminal. It must be hard to live like that, that you must be so secretive.

Like I said, you know more about me, than my relatives.

If you want me to phone you, PM me, your mobile number, because I don't have one.

You are avoiding my question, Im willing to go meet or talk to your family was it in Kaymakli?? who knows my mother in law may know your family.

[Kikapu]

Now we are getting back to the crux of the problem........HOW! Unless a common ground can be found and concessions from both sides come at once then it cannot happen. Neither side can afford to lose control of the situation. What I have said all along is that direct trade is good for both sides in that money will be the provider of a solution and not the politics as a whole. Once the whole island can trade and attract tourism then the businessmen will soon start to talk to each other and then, as far as I am concerned, nothing will stop them. This is the level playing field that VP and I have asked for because to open the links now would be a gross mis-justice for the TC businessmen. TPap has set his sights on winning in both fields and has done all he can to prevent TCs getting a foothold.

There's one problem with your solution Zan, and that is, if the RoC allows the "TRNC" to have direct trade, what guarantees do they get, that we just won't walk away into the sunset, and refuse to deal with them, because we are now truly financially "independent", and further more, if you think that the "mafia" operations in the "TRNC" will allow unification, you are mistaken, since they are more than likely lining the pockets of the politicians, who ever they may be. In the meantime, the GC refugees will be waiting in the graves, to be returned back to their lands, to be re-buried there. There has to be an agreed step by step movements by both sides, simultaneously, each side reaching said "bench marks", before moving to the next item, with full Unification, at the end of set time. I believe 10 years, is a good time span, to go from where we are now, to 2 states 1 country solution.

[zan]

Now we are getting back to the crux of the problem........HOW! Unless a common ground can be found and concessions from both sides come at once then it cannot happen. Neither side can afford to lose control of the situation. What I have said all along is that direct trade is good for both sides in that money will be the provider of a solution and not the politics as a whole. Once the whole island can trade and attract tourism then the businessmen will soon start to talk to each other and then, as far as I am concerned, nothing will stop them. This is the level playing field that VP and I have asked for because to open the links now would be a gross mis-justice for the TC businessmen. TPap has set his sights on winning in both fields and has done all he can to prevent TCs getting a foothold.

There's one problem with your solution Zan, and that is, if the RoC allows the "TRNC" to have direct trade, what guarantees do they get, that we just won't walk away into the sunset, and refuse to deal with them, because we are now truly financially "independent", and further more, if you think that the "mafia" operations in the "TRNC" will allow unification, you are mistaken, since they are more than likely lining the pockets of the politicians, who ever they may be. In the meantime, the GC refugees will be waiting in the graves, to be returned back to their lands, to be re-buried there. There has to be an agreed step by step movements by both sides, simultaneously, each side reaching said "bench marks", before moving to the next item, with full Unification, at the end of set time. I believe 10 years, is a good time span, to go from where we are now, to 2 states 1 country solution.

There is no more a Mafia there then there is in the south. There are many that line the pockets of politicians on both sides so that does not hold either. What sort of a world do you think my eldest sister has moved back to. She prays five times a day and has worked hard all her life. Sure there are problems in the TRNC but in short they have to do something to make a living and bring some money into the country. If the main income can be changed so that it comes from tourism, what government is going to jeopardise that by allowing Mafia to openly operate and scare them away. I chose my words carefully in that last statement because neither you nor I have any idea what the Mafia is doing in any country as far as business is concerned.

What is going to happen for sure if things go the way they have been going, is that the TRNC will become a second Taiwan so what other choice has the RoC got than to trust the TRNC with direct trade. Won't that go a long way in helping to build trust where as if the TRNC is left to go its own way then resentment will continue.

[Kikapu]

Take note the EU UN USA........another step forward for us partionists, thank god for Tasos, may he be elected for another term.

Ah yes, spoken like a true partitionist, and all this BS from you and Zan about not wanting a partition, but a settlement. Don't forget, it appears, you already have a "partition" in the "TRNC".

66.666% Anatolian and 33.333% Turkish Cypriots.

I put you in the 33.333% column.

Kikapu do you have family in living in the TRNC?

Some, from my mothers side. Why.?

Do they know who your are? maybe you can PM me and I can go visit them, find out more about you.

VP, are you serious. My whole life has been an open book on this forum, for everyone to read. You know more about me, than any relative of mine in Cyprus.

On the other hand, we know very little about you. Why don't you open up VP. We don't need to know where you live, or where you work, or what you do. No names, no easily identifiable statements. It would make you more interesting, if we had some idea, what kind of a person you are. Please don't take this the wrong way VP, but you hide everything about yourself, as if you were a criminal. It must be hard to live like that, that you must be so secretive.

Like I said, you know more about me, than my relatives.

If you want me to phone you, PM me, your mobile number, because I don't have one.

You are avoiding my question, Im willing to go meet or talk to your family was it in Kaymakli?? who knows my mother in law may know your family.

You're not joking.

Yes, we are from Kaymakli, but not my mothers family. Quite frankly, I really do not know, which part they do live in. Perhaps spread out. I'm almost certain, your mother in law, would have heard of my family, if she also lived there. It was not a very large place, back in the 60's.

Now, you answer my question, and don't avoid it. Lets get an open version of VP. I'm being very serious. Part of the reason why people clash with you is ( I should know), is because, we don't know who VP is. A lot of times, you come across as "HAL", the computer system in the film, 2001. You have not shown your human or your humane side. You really are not taking part in all discussions here, or even shown much concern, to other topics, unless it is politics. Did you even know, that Andri_cy's little 5 year old daughter had to have one of her kidneys removed last week, due to tumour, that was discovered few days earlier. We have all sent her get well wishes.

I can assure you, you will have a better time here, if you were more open. This is my advice to you, as a TC brother.

[Kikapu]

There is no more a Mafia there then there is in the south. There are many that line the pockets of politicians on both sides so that does not hold either. What sort of a world do you think my eldest sister has moved back to. She prays five times a day and has worked hard all her life. Sure there are problems in the TRNC but in short they have to do something to make a living and bring some money into the country. If the main income can be changed so that it comes from tourism, what government is going to jeopardise that by allowing Mafia to openly operate and scare them away. I chose my words carefully in that last statement because neither you nor I have any idea what the Mafia is doing in any country as far as business is concerned.

What is going to happen for sure if things go the way they have been going, is that the TRNC will become a second Taiwan so what other choice has the RoC got than to trust the TRNC with direct trade. Won't that go a long way in helping to build trust where as if the TRNC is left to go its own way then resentment will continue.

My friend Zan, no one is stopping any tourist from going to the "TRNC". There are direct flights to Cyprus, from any place around the world, with connections, of course. Are you going to insist, that unless the plane makes landing at Ercan, that tourist will not come. All they need to do, is get a bus transfer from Larnaca, to any point in Cyprus. When I arrive at Heathrow, ir takes me close to 1 1/2 hours to get home, with the tube and bus. I'm sure it will take much less than that, to be driven by bus, to Girne / Kyrenia.

As for the Taiwan comment, do not forget, that China still considers it to be it's territory, and will take it, when ever China is ready. Taiwan is just "maturing as an investment" for China, just like Honk Kong was.

[zan]

There is no more a Mafia there then there is in the south. There are many that line the pockets of politicians on both sides so that does not hold either. What sort of a world do you think my eldest sister has moved back to. She prays five times a day and has worked hard all her life. Sure there are problems in the TRNC but in short they have to do something to make a living and bring some money into the country. If the main income can be changed so that it comes from tourism, what government is going to jeopardise that by allowing Mafia to openly operate and scare them away. I chose my words carefully in that last statement because neither you nor I have any idea what the Mafia is doing in any country as far as business is concerned.

What is going to happen for sure if things go the way they have been going, is that the TRNC will become a second Taiwan so what other choice has the RoC got than to trust the TRNC with direct trade. Won't that go a long way in helping to build trust where as if the TRNC is left to go its own way then resentment will continue.

My friend Zan, no one is stopping any tourist from going to the "TRNC". There are direct flights to Cyprus, from any place around the world, with connections, of course. Are you going to insist, that unless the plane makes landing at Ercan, that tourist will not come. All they need to do, is get a bus transfer from Larnaca, to any point in Cyprus. When I arrive at Heathrow, ir takes me close to 1 1/2 hours to get home, with the tube and bus. I'm sure it will take much less than that, to be driven by bus, to Girne / Kyrenia.

As for the Taiwan comment, do not forget, that China still considers it to be it's territory, and will take it, when ever China is ready. Taiwan is just "maturing as an investment" for China, just like Honk Kong was.

Oh Yeah! The Brits already think we hate each other and blush when I explain to them that I am not a Greek from Cyprus. Imagine with all that is going on in the world that they will be flocking to an island in which they have to show their passports to cross a border where they see one type of soldier on one side and then another on the other side. Perhaps we can make that a theme. Has Disney heard of us yet. "Welcome to war torn Cyprus where war might break out any minute. Do not unpack, as this will make a swift getaway harder. Enjoy the sand filled beaches. Bring binoculars to view abandoned towns from the coast".

[askimwos]

There is no more a Mafia there then there is in the south. There are many that line the pockets of politicians on both sides so that does not hold either. What sort of a world do you think my eldest sister has moved back to. She prays five times a day and has worked hard all her life. Sure there are problems in the TRNC but in short they have to do something to make a living and bring some money into the country. If the main income can be changed so that it comes from tourism, what government is going to jeopardise that by allowing Mafia to openly operate and scare them away. I chose my words carefully in that last statement because neither you nor I have any idea what the Mafia is doing in any country as far as business is concerned.

What is going to happen for sure if things go the way they have been going, is that the TRNC will become a second Taiwan so what other choice has the RoC got than to trust the TRNC with direct trade. Won't that go a long way in helping to build trust where as if the TRNC is left to go its own way then resentment will continue.

My friend Zan, no one is stopping any tourist from going to the "TRNC". There are direct flights to Cyprus, from any place around the world, with connections, of course. Are you going to insist, that unless the plane makes landing at Ercan, that tourist will not come. All they need to do, is get a bus transfer from Larnaca, to any point in Cyprus. When I arrive at Heathrow, ir takes me close to 1 1/2 hours to get home, with the tube and bus. I'm sure it will take much less than that, to be driven by bus, to Girne / Kyrenia.

As for the Taiwan comment, do not forget, that China still considers it to be it's territory, and will take it, when ever China is ready. Taiwan is just "maturing as an investment" for China, just like Honk Kong was.

Oh Yeah! The Brits already think we hate each other and blush when I explain to them that I am not a Greek from Cyprus. Imagine with all that is going on in the world that they will be flocking to an island in which they have to show their passports to cross a border where they see one type of soldier on one side and then another on the other side. Perhaps we can make that a theme. Has Disney heard of us yet. "Welcome to war torn Cyprus where war might break out any minute. Do not unpack, as this will make a swift getaway harder. Enjoy the sand filled beaches. Bring binoculars to view abandoned towns from the coast".

Zan you know it very well and you admitted this in the past that the whole direct trade issue is not about economic isolation but about de jure recognition of the trnc.

If you really cared about growing your economy then there are other ways of doing this and RoC have the capacity to help if these measures do not push towards recognition of the trnc. The RoC has vast experience in tourism issues and surely the tou operators in the south and the north will benefit through combined holiday packages if the TCs accept the use of Larnaca airport. What's wrong with comanaging the Famagusta port? Isn't direct trade that you want? You can surely have it the easy way if agreeing to that proposal as well.

Botton line, it is not the economic isolation that you care about but rather recognition though the back door. And this is the reason the RoC will never allow it as it is a step towards partition and not towards reunification. Already the German presidency of the EU did not accept direct trade under article 133 as they found out that this article will not stand at any court if challenged. Protocol 10 of the accession treaty is there and states that the whole of the island joined the EU only for the EU acquis being temporarily suspended in the occupied areas.

So stop moaning and whinning about economic isolation as this is really self imposed. There are options on the table and if the TC administration really cared about the isolation they would have picked those offers.

[Kikapu]

Oh Yeah! The Brits already think we hate each other and blush when I explain to them that I am not a Greek from Cyprus. Imagine with all that is going on in the world that they will be flocking to an island in which they have to show their passports to cross a border where they see one type of soldier on one side and then another on the other side. Perhaps we can make that a theme. Has Disney heard of us yet. "Welcome to war torn Cyprus where war might break out any minute. Do not unpack, as this will make a swift getaway harder. Enjoy the sand filled beaches. Bring binoculars to view abandoned towns from the coast".

Hey, if we Cypriots need to show our passports, to go from North to South or South to North, I don't know, why you are so concern with the tourist. In that case, lets implement one of my suggestions, and that was to get rid off all the check points in the same day, as the Ercan and Famagusta ports are open to the world. Let everyone come and go as they please. I really do not see a problem with this. Let Cypriots feel like they are in their own country, without having to show an ID. This would go a long way, to bring trust between the two sides.

Imagine, no check points.

[Viewpoint]

Take note the EU UN USA........another step forward for us partionists, thank god for Tasos, may he be elected for another term.

Ah yes, spoken like a true partitionist, and all this BS from you and Zan about not wanting a partition, but a settlement. Don't forget, it appears, you already have a "partition" in the "TRNC".

66.666% Anatolian and 33.333% Turkish Cypriots.

I put you in the 33.333% column.

Kikapu do you have family in living in the TRNC?

Some, from my mothers side. Why.?

Do they know who your are? maybe you can PM me and I can go visit them, find out more about you.

VP, are you serious. My whole life has been an open book on this forum, for everyone to read. You know more about me, than any relative of mine in Cyprus.

On the other hand, we know very little about you. Why don't you open up VP. We don't need to know where you live, or where you work, or what you do. No names, no easily identifiable statements. It would make you more interesting, if we had some idea, what kind of a person you are. Please don't take this the wrong way VP, but you hide everything about yourself, as if you were a criminal. It must be hard to live like that, that you must be so secretive.

Like I said, you know more about me, than my relatives.

If you want me to phone you, PM me, your mobile number, because I don't have one.

You are avoiding my question, Im willing to go meet or talk to your family was it in Kaymakli?? who knows my mother in law may know your family.

You're not joking.

Yes, we are from Kaymakli, but not my mothers family. Quite frankly, I really do not know, which part they do live in. Perhaps spread out. I'm almost certain, your mother in law, would have heard of my family, if she also lived there. It was not a very large place, back in the 60's.

Now, you answer my question, and don't avoid it. Lets get an open version of VP. I'm being very serious. Part of the reason why people clash with you is ( I should know), is because, we don't know who VP is. A lot of times, you come across as "HAL", the computer system in the film, 2001. You have not shown your human or your humane side. You really are not taking part in all discussions here, or even shown much concern, to other topics, unless it is politics. Did you even know, that Andri_cy's little 5 year old daughter had to have one of her kidneys removed last week, due to tumour, that was discovered few days earlier. We have all sent her get well wishes.

I can assure you, you will have a better time here, if you were more open. This is my advice to you, as a TC brother.

You are yet again trying to divert the issue from yourself to me...Im guessing you have no family connection in the TRNC and that your 40+ year of dillution has distanced you from TCs, this would explain why you are so cold and distant from us and closer to GCs or you are just a GC playing at being a TC fullstop.

As for Andri you should really ask her whether I was aware of her bad news. I was not around when that news broke but as soon as I was I PMed my feelings, so everything is not as you think. You do not know me at all and by the looks of it you never will. I will be honest with you I do not open up to people I do not trust and the abuse I have and continue to endured on here has taught me that some people should be avoided at all costs as if they had any personal information on me I am 100% certain they would use it to ridicule and persecute me and my life, thats how these people work.