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[Viewpoint]

Duplication

[zan]

Many GCs can speak Turkish very well.

Miltiades and Pyro are putting their money where their big mouths are all for the sake of charity how about you? you accused me of many things your turn to face the music or are you just a cheap skate who lives miles and miles away telling us we are wrong and that we shoudl put our necks on the chopping block as long as yours is safe.

Yes, I'm a cheap skate.

I've accused you of being a partitionist and a propagandist........so what's your question.?

I have not changed from my beliefs. In fact I have defended you, by not being many VP's, and also not working for the "TRNC". You are the one that made the claim, that you were fired from the "TRNC".

You also mislead people in many different ways, for example by holding a British Passport, but claiming to be travelling to the UK and the USA with a "TRNC" issued passport, by waiting for a while, to obtain visas.

I'm sorry but, you made a lot of claims at times, that were not always correct.

I know what Kikapu. Why don't you call your relatives and find out where they live and tell VP. He can then visit them and clear up the issue with you and then you can speak to them and they can verify that VP is who he is. We can clear up this whole mess with one visit and Pyro can pay over the money he has promised. How does that sound to you VP?

[Viewpoint]

Many GCs can speak Turkish very well.

Miltiades and Pyro are putting their money where their big mouths are all for the sake of charity how about you? you accused me of many things your turn to face the music or are you just a cheap skate who lives miles and miles away telling us we are wrong and that we shoudl put our necks on the chopping block as long as yours is safe.

Yes, I'm a cheap skate.

I've accused you of being a partitionist and a propagandist........so what's your question.?

I have not changed from my beliefs. In fact I have defended you, by not being many VP's, and also not working for the "TRNC". You are the one that made the claim, that you were fired from the "TRNC".

You also mislead people in many different ways, for example by holding a British Passport, but claiming to be travelling to the UK and the USA with a "TRNC" issued passport, by waiting for a while, to obtain visas.

I'm sorry but, you made a lot of claims at times, that were not always correct.

I know what Kikapu. Why don't you call your relatives and find out where they live and tell VP. He can then visit them and clear up the issue with you and then you can speak to them and they can verify that VP is who he is. We can clear up this whole mess with one visit and Pyro can pay over the money he has promised. How does that sound to you VP?

Great idea, OK with me.

PS Dont forget Miltiades pledged 1000pds and Pyro 3000pds

[Pyrpolizer]

Good points VP. I hope asimwos is listening.
Man GCs are antagonistic between themselves and Askimwos says they will share their clients with TCs.

Tut tut tut.

I see! You are now aligning with Vp!
Well nationalists can support each other some times even if they are the worst enemies.
I suggest to read my previous post Pyr. You were quick to jump on Vp's bandwagon!

I don't know why you put nationalism in here. VP put a rational argument down. Your argument was irrational. Simple really.

And who told you I am an enemy with VP? Most of the times I disagree with him but never ever felt hate for this person.

Because on your attempt to dismiss an argument that did not fit your views which in some cases do sound nationalistic you were quick to jump on Vp's bandwagon without even reading my posts.

Nobody said that you hate Vp, the enemy term was used in a way to show that Vp is in the one extreme and you some times in the other exreme.

I believe that people should think out of the box and not stick to 1960's politics. There are ways towards reunification and reconciliation that do not require a complete solution to be signed first. What I mean that the notion of solving the problem and then starting to work on economic intergration and reconciliation is the old way of thinking and maybe we need to take things step by step and improve the trust between the two sides first.

Why nationalist? Just because I am not a communist? Did you see me waving a Greek flag, or shouting good Turk-dead turk, or wanting to violate any rights of the TCs for the sake of my glorious nation???

Listen askimwos your ideas were flawed from the beginning. When I pointed your mistake you accepted that the whole thing should include a deal with terms.

Remember your initial proposal was UNCONDITIONAL and this is what really made them FLAWED.
Slowly slowly your argumentation came to a point of suggesting a procedure of confidence building measures, is if you are the first person who ever thought about it.

I have absolutely no objection if there was any way for the TC side to agree on the terms of such measures. So far they have not accepted one iota.

I have no objection you discussing with VP and try to convince him either.

[askimwos]

I will give you the benefit of the doubt but both sides are free to work together right now, if they were greedy they would have jumped on the band wagon a long time ago. I think you need to find a GC tour operator and ask them why they do not forge these ties with the north.

Because those who own the hotels in the RoC controlled areas are those who lost their hotels in Famagusta and Kyrenia damn it. And Askimwos is just seeing dreams.

Yeah right!
Go on dreaming Pyr.
Where there is money to be made and low risk of bad publicity (this is provided the RoC agrees on this in return for freezing GC properties being sold) the business is business.

You seem to be acting like an ostrich hidding his head in the sand Pyr. Just look at the casino issue, or even at GC companies investing in Istambul (oh sorry, this should read Constantinoupolis) stock exchange. Btw you are the one who agreed with Vp that GCs are greedy.

Vp in his attempt to dismiss my argument he in fact gave the answer to his question.

[askimwos]

Good points VP. I hope asimwos is listening.
Man GCs are antagonistic between themselves and Askimwos says they will share their clients with TCs.

Tut tut tut.

I see! You are now aligning with Vp!
Well nationalists can support each other some times even if they are the worst enemies.
I suggest to read my previous post Pyr. You were quick to jump on Vp's bandwagon!

I don't know why you put nationalism in here. VP put a rational argument down. Your argument was irrational. Simple really.

And who told you I am an enemy with VP? Most of the times I disagree with him but never ever felt hate for this person.

Because on your attempt to dismiss an argument that did not fit your views which in some cases do sound nationalistic you were quick to jump on Vp's bandwagon without even reading my posts.

Nobody said that you hate Vp, the enemy term was used in a way to show that Vp is in the one extreme and you some times in the other exreme.

I believe that people should think out of the box and not stick to 1960's politics. There are ways towards reunification and reconciliation that do not require a complete solution to be signed first. What I mean that the notion of solving the problem and then starting to work on economic intergration and reconciliation is the old way of thinking and maybe we need to take things step by step and improve the trust between the two sides first.

Why nationalist? Just because I am not a communist? Did you see me waving a Greek flag, or shouting good Turk-dead turk, or wanting to violate any rights of the TCs for the sake of my glorious nation???

Listen askimwos your ideas were flawed from the beginning. When I pointed your mistake you accepted that the whole thing should include a deal with terms.

Remember your initial proposal was UNCONDITIONAL and this is what really made them FLAWED.
Slowly slowly your argumentation came to a point of suggesting a procedure of confidence building measures, is if you are the first person who ever thought about it.

I have absolutely no objection if there was any way for the TC side to agree on the terms of such measures. So far they have not accepted one iota.

I have no objection you discussing with VP and try to convince him either.

I called you nationalist because of a series of posts Pyr, including your attitude of not accepting anything that you don't agree on. Do I need to remind you of your post where you called one third of GCs lambs and belonging to a dangerous party that you more or less called traitors?
These things show your nationalistic views and your sometimes fascists attitude. I gave you the chance and you never apologized for that post of yours. I consider you an extreme right element and I do not need to see you carrying a greek flag to say this.

Now as far as my original proposal, go back to my original post and see what exactly I said about the issue of cooperation on tourism.
What I said is that where there is a way there is will and that a legal way can be found to do this. Your suggestion about the proposal being UNCONDITIONAL is another twist and spin from your side. So please net time read carefully and don't get agitated if being critisised.

I call you once again to go back and read my original post, the whole discussion started under the condition of TCs accepting to use Larnaca airport and comanage the Famagusta port instead of askind for direct trade in the way they understand it.

[Viewpoint]

askim the stumbling block to this "cooperation" to build tourism as alternative route to strengthening the economy is commendable but you will soon find out that it is not the north which will greatly benefit from such a development that are against taking such a positive step. You really need to question your own sides mentality and stance towards anything that will support the economy, as they still maintain the argument that if we are kept isolated we will continue to want a solution.

[askimwos]

askim the stumbling block to this "cooperation" to build tourism as alternative route to strengthening the economy is commendable but you will soon find out that it is not the north which will greatly benefit from such a development that are against taking such a positive step. You really need to question your own sides mentality and stance towards anything that will support the economy, as they still maintain the argument that if we are kept isolated we will continue to want a solution.

Vp I have explained this at least 5 times so far and although you seem to have understood that in a capitalist society there is no barrier called "national cause", you come back with the same argument that has already been tested and proved wrong - where there is money to be made big companies will not stop at anything, especially if the risk is minimised.

As for who will benefit more, I would say big companies and the TC economy as from minimum tourism they can move to a constant supply of tourists. If for example Israel proposed the RoC to design combined packages for the tourists visiting Israel so that if they choose they can spend a couple of nights in the RoC you bet theRoC will accept as from nothing they will have another way of tourists visiting Cyprus.

I believe that there is no need to say that I do not compare Israel with the"trnc", Israel is a recognised country while "trnc" is a self proclaimed illegal one, recognised only by Turkey. This is for Pyr so as not to jump of his seat and start calling me dangerous again!

[zan]

Can I just jump in here and ask VP not to call you Askim.........This is what Lena calls me and two straight men that have never met should not be using this term of endearment.

[Viewpoint]

askim the stumbling block to this "cooperation" to build tourism as alternative route to strengthening the economy is commendable but you will soon find out that it is not the north which will greatly benefit from such a development that are against taking such a positive step. You really need to question your own sides mentality and stance towards anything that will support the economy, as they still maintain the argument that if we are kept isolated we will continue to want a solution.

Vp I have explained this at least 5 times so far and although you seem to have understood that in a capitalist society there is no barrier called "national cause", you come back with the same argument that has already been tested and proved wrong - where there is money to be made big companies will not stop at anything, especially if the risk is minimised.

As for who will benefit more, I would say big companies and the TC economy as from minimum tourism they can move to a constant supply of tourists. If for example Israel proposed the RoC to design combined packages for the tourists visiting Israel so that if they choose they can spend a couple of nights in the RoC you bet theRoC will accept as from nothing they will have another way of tourists visiting Cyprus.

I believe that there is no need to say that I do not compare Israel with the"trnc", Israel is a recognised country while "trnc" is a self proclaimed illegal one, recognised only by Turkey. This is for Pyr so as not to jump of his seat and start calling me dangerous again!

Have you realized what your political policies are against the north? to maintain the isolation of the north thus keeping the TCs wanting a solution, GC mentality is so narow on this issue that they will object to everything flies coming north or vegetables being grown on GC land. They are the ones who have to change their stance and viewpoint to allow GC tour operators to work with those in the north. TC operators would jump at the chance to bring more tourists north but the obstacles are so great and ingrained that you are having problems accepting them. Do you not feel the animosity towards the north when GC land owners see brand new hotels being built on disputed land. Then you naively believe that the capitalistic mechanism will work to get these same people to promote tourism in TRNC, imo you need time to re-asses in the ingrained hostility towards the north and any progress that would improve the situation here, you tend to be very superficial in your arguments.