Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

ZAn, what you gave above proves that in the 1960 constitution some unfair and undemocratic parameters were passed that were causing the problems. Or maybe you insist that giving to the 18% minority the 30% of governmental jobs was not something unfair? Also it shows how TCs exercised their veto rights to create problems and stalemates.

Thats the problems you get when you deviate from the universal principles of democracy as they exist in all other democratic countries. And if the 1960 constitution had such deviations once, then the Annan plans and the other crap they want to force on us now have them 10 times as much. This is why we rejected them. Thankfully this time they gave us the right to reject it, they didn't just take Papadopoulos and force him to sign what they cooked for us as they did with Makarios.

No I do not think it was unfair. There is such a thing as positive discrimination going on all over the world. Looking up the word "Democracy" and applying to the letter is not what human beings do. We are thinking and caring creatures that can differentiate between when and how to apply things to our daily lives. If you say it was right for Makarios to do what he did then it is equally right to give minorities extra powers to balance the inequalities. History had a very big part to play in that decision and quite rightly too.

[Piratis]

The EOKA of 1955-59 was an organization to fight the colonialists, unlike the TCs who sided with the colonialists to fight against GCs.

So we will honor those heroes forever, and those that will rot in hell are the colonialists and TCs that fought against us.

EOKA-B is another story, and nobody celebrates their illegal action and crimes apart from a few extremists. On the other hand, the TC equivalent of EOKA-B, TMT is still alive and well in the occupied areas.

Did you ever stop to think that your average Turkish Cypriot's demonization of EOKA is equally moronic and without any factual foundation as your own demonisation of EOKA B'.

You really are no better than the Turkish Cypriots you are attacking. I'm sure that some people will find comfort in this thought. Maybe we should add this to whatever all Cypriots share in common next to Halloumi and Coca Cola.

First of all I am not attacking anybody, I am just saying my opinion. You are the one who is making attacks without having any arguments.

EOKA B and its actions are condemned by almost everybody (with the exception a small minority of EOKA-B related people in DISY). After 1960 we had a democratically elected leadership that EOKA-B fought against and committed crimes and illegalities against Cypriots.
Not only that, but they helped junta of Athens with the coup and they gave the excuse to Turkey to invade. They were the biggest morons ever, but I think thats too soft for them since what they did was treason and it can not be excused on the basis of stupidity.

[Piratis]

ZAn, what you gave above proves that in the 1960 constitution some unfair and undemocratic parameters were passed that were causing the problems. Or maybe you insist that giving to the 18% minority the 30% of governmental jobs was not something unfair? Also it shows how TCs exercised their veto rights to create problems and stalemates.

Thats the problems you get when you deviate from the universal principles of democracy as they exist in all other democratic countries. And if the 1960 constitution had such deviations once, then the Annan plans and the other crap they want to force on us now have them 10 times as much. This is why we rejected them. Thankfully this time they gave us the right to reject it, they didn't just take Papadopoulos and force him to sign what they cooked for us as they did with Makarios.

No I do not think it was unfair. There is such a thing as positive discrimination going on all over the world. Looking up the word "Democracy" and applying to the letter is not what human beings do. We are thinking and caring creatures that can differentiate between when and how to apply things to our daily lives. If you say it was right for Makarios to do what he did then it is equally right to give minorities extra powers to balance the inequalities. History had a very big part to play in that decision and quite rightly too.

positive discrimination??? Are you kidding me?

Positive discrimination is done for groups of people that are underrepresented in something in order to increase their percentage to one that is closer to their population percentage.

E.g. if women in parliament are very few then a positive discrimination can be implemented where a minimum quota of say 20-30-50% should be women. But they will not make this quota 80% which is way above the population percentage of women, as this would not be "positive" but totally negative discrimination since it would have the opposite result from the one that positive discrimination is design to - it would create an under-representation of men.

Similarly giving 30% of governmental positions to the 18% of TCs was a totally negative discrimination against GCs since TCs would be way overrepresented and GCs way underrepresented. And the opportunely that a TC would get a governmental job would be twice as much than a GCs.

So basically that 30% is exactly the opposite of "positive discrimination", or said simply it is the plain old racist discrimination.

[polis]

The EOKA of 1955-59 was an organization to fight the colonialists, unlike the TCs who sided with the colonialists to fight against GCs.

So we will honor those heroes forever, and those that will rot in hell are the colonialists and TCs that fought against us.

EOKA-B is another story, and nobody celebrates their illegal action and crimes apart from a few extremists. On the other hand, the TC equivalent of EOKA-B, TMT is still alive and well in the occupied areas.

Did you ever stop to think that your average Turkish Cypriot's demonization of EOKA is equally moronic and without any factual foundation as your own demonisation of EOKA B'.

You really are no better than the Turkish Cypriots you are attacking. I'm sure that some people will find comfort in this thought. Maybe we should add this to whatever all Cypriots share in common next to Halloumi and Coca Cola.

First of all I am not attacking anybody, I am just saying my opinion. You are the one who is making attacks without having any arguments.

EOKA B and its actions are condemned by almost everybody (with the exception a small minority of EOKA-B related people in DISY). After 1960 we had a democratically elected leadership that EOKA-B fought against and committed crimes and illegalities against Cypriots.
Not only that, but they helped junta of Athens with the coup and they gave the excuse to Turkey to invade. They were the biggest morons ever, but I think thats too soft for them since what they did was treason and it can not be excused on the basis of stupidity.

So, like I said, you willingness to use history, without any concern about factual accuracy is no different than that of the average Turk on this list. So don't try to pretend you are any better.

[zan]

ZAn, what you gave above proves that in the 1960 constitution some unfair and undemocratic parameters were passed that were causing the problems. Or maybe you insist that giving to the 18% minority the 30% of governmental jobs was not something unfair? Also it shows how TCs exercised their veto rights to create problems and stalemates.

Thats the problems you get when you deviate from the universal principles of democracy as they exist in all other democratic countries. And if the 1960 constitution had such deviations once, then the Annan plans and the other crap they want to force on us now have them 10 times as much. This is why we rejected them. Thankfully this time they gave us the right to reject it, they didn't just take Papadopoulos and force him to sign what they cooked for us as they did with Makarios.

No I do not think it was unfair. There is such a thing as positive discrimination going on all over the world. Looking up the word "Democracy" and applying to the letter is not what human beings do. We are thinking and caring creatures that can differentiate between when and how to apply things to our daily lives. If you say it was right for Makarios to do what he did then it is equally right to give minorities extra powers to balance the inequalities. History had a very big part to play in that decision and quite rightly too.

positive discrimination??? Are you kidding me?

Positive discrimination is done for groups of people that are underrepresented in something in order to increase their percentage to one that is closer to their population percentage.

E.g. if women in parliament are very few then a positive discrimination can be implemented where a minimum quota of say 20-30-50% should be women. But they will not make this quota 80% which is way above the population percentage of women, as this would not be "positive" but totally negative discrimination since it would have the opposite result from the one that positive discrimination is design to - it would create an under-representation of men.

Similarly giving 30% of governmental positions to the 18% of TCs was a totally negative discrimination against GCs since TCs would be way overrepresented and GCs way underrepresented. And the opportunely that a TC would get a governmental job would be twice as much than a GCs.

So basically that 30% is exactly the opposite of "positive discrimination", or said simply it is the plain old racist discrimination.

Turned it around once again Piratis.

History has shown that the Bruits were right to insist on that positive discrimination for the TCs. Without it there would have been an even easier route for Makarios to sideline us and create a Crete all over again as far as the TC population was concerned.

[Piratis]

Turned it around once again Piratis.

How did I turn it around? You said it was "positive discrimination" and I simply explined you that it wasn't.

History has shown that the Bruits were right to insist on that positive discrimination for the TCs. Without it there would have been an even easier route for Makarios to sideline us and create a Crete all over again as far as the TC population was concerned.

On the contrary this racist discrimination was what sparked the whole conflict. TCs were given 30% while they were only 18%. The goverment could not find 30% competent TCs to fill the positions so it didn't fully implement this discrimination, the TCs retaliated by vetoing the taxes. The state could not function without taxes so Makarios proposed changes to the constitution. TCs got pissed that Makarios even dared to make such proposals and they left from the parliament and everything went downhill from there.

If the system was democratic to begin with, and such unfair provisions did not exist, then things could have worked just fine.

Explain my how this "positive discrimination" has anything to do with "Makarios creating a Crete"? What would be different if TCs were getting a fair 18% of positions instead of 30%?

The only thing that would be different is that GCs would not feel that they are being negatively discriminated because of the TCs. But apparently those that created the 1960 agreements, the masters of divide and rule, wanted exactly that to happen.

[Piratis]

So, like I said, you willingness to use history, without any concern about factual accuracy is no different than that of the average Turk on this list. So don't try to pretend you are any better.

If I am not accurate then why you don't correct me?

[polis]

So, like I said, you willingness to use history, without any concern about factual accuracy is no different than that of the average Turk on this list. So don't try to pretend you are any better.

If I am not accurate then why you don't correct me?

If you ever attempt to make an actual factual statement then I might.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

On the contrary this racist discrimination was what sparked the whole conflict. TCs were given 30% while they were only 18%. The goverment could not find 30% competent TCs to fill the positions so it didn't fully implement this discrimination, the TCs retaliated by vetoing the taxes. The state could not function without taxes so Makarios proposed changes to the constitution. TCs got pissed that Makarios even dared to make such proposals and they left from the parliament and everything went downhill from there.

Could you tell everyone why the TCs had to use their veto something about a supreme court judgement.......do you recall that?

[askimwos]

Piratis

On the contrary this racist discrimination was what sparked the whole conflict. TCs were given 30% while they were only 18%. The goverment could not find 30% competent TCs to fill the positions so it didn't fully implement this discrimination, the TCs retaliated by vetoing the taxes. The state could not function without taxes so Makarios proposed changes to the constitution. TCs got pissed that Makarios even dared to make such proposals and they left from the parliament and everything went downhill from there.

Could you tell everyone why the TCs had to use their veto something about a supreme court judgement.......do you recall that?

Why don;t you enlighten us Vp?