Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Birkıbrıslı you are asking for the impossible Kikapu would never do such even if he could as he is their major mouth piece on this forum and has not once said anything remotely against them.

[BirKibrisli]

Birkıbrıslı you are asking for the impossible Kikapu would never do such even if he could as he is their major mouth piece on this forum and has not once said anything remotely against them.

I am sure Kikapu is nobody's mouthpiece,VP...He sincerely believes in what he says...And he thinks he is helping bridge the gap,like I used to believe...He is wrong,like I was...He can be a real contributor towards more understanding and respect if he is more balanced in his criticisms,and starts pointing out the GC mistakes as well...I am hopeful he will see the light one day...

[bill cobbett]

Cypriots are a simple people. Simpletons some might say. That is how they survived over millennia, in the process preserving their Hellenic identity, minus a few who opted to side with the enemy.

As such they believe:

- RoC is invulnerable
- the illegal manufactured line can never be awarded a seal of approval
- gCypriot towns of Morphou, Lapithos, keryneia etc. will again be such
- talk of a possible BBF was the result of an illegal WAR waged against Cyprus

Cypriots will never agree on a BBF. NEVER. They are too smart for it, though I recognize the difficulties for our politicians.

tCypriots, the circa 10%-14% minority has limited options. Its time is running out. Turkey's time is also running out, where she will have to discuss soon her Cyprus logic with her own Kurds.

It is about time we tell our tCypriot compatriots, with love and honesty, that if they wish to command things to try their luck in Ankara. In Cyprus, Cypriots command and Cypriots want their Cypriot towns back, they want a unitary state where a minority cannot be allowed to whine so much.

More on my blog:
http://antifon.blogspot.com

A little reminder for your point of view re this BBF business AF...

Yep ... def, as you will know, agreed at the High Level Meetings/Agreements of 1977 and 1979 but agreements can be broken... by, amongst other things, subsequent actions and by lack of goodwill, by not entering into the underlying spirit of the agreements.

... and what better way of undermining those High Level Agreements than by Turkey and its Regime establishing, and supporting with billions of dollars since, the attempt at partition and annexation known as "trcn" in 1983???

When seen in this light, the High Level Agreements were clearly broken, and can therefore be declared as being NULL AND VOID.

[boulio]

bir said:

I am sure Kikapu is nobody's mouthpiece,VP...He sincerely believes in what he says...And he thinks he is helping bridge the gap,like I used to believe...He is wrong,like I was...He can be a real contributor towards more understanding and respect if he is more balanced in his criticisms,and starts pointing out the GC mistakes as well...I am hopeful he will see the light one day...

hey stupid maybe you should critize your own side as your fellow t/c had done in the past

here some reading for Banaoit and Birturk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G0sh0ny7j8

http://ihsanali.org/Default.aspx?_Page=374


did you miss it it was posted two days ago in this thread or did you and bananiot decide to dismiss it as propoganda.[/quote]

[antifon]

Kikapu...thank you for taking the time to reply to my post...I am really not in the mood to go over all the issues you've raised, as we have discussed them here ad infinitum...My point is that Cyprus issue is too complex to be reduced to any one simple point...Even if that point is as noble as your democracy and human rights arguments...

People and communities have collective consciouness which goes beyond any logical or legal or even fair considerations...The worst approach one can take to a victim of trauma is disbelief and suspicion...The second worst approach is to blame them for bringing the victimisation onto themselves...The third worst thing is to accuse them of gaining something at the expense of those they consider their oppressors...And the cardinal mistake is to refuse to show and empathy and compassion....Our GC cousins of the fanatial/nationalist perusation are doing all this and more...Knowing well the effect it is having on the TCs and on the negotiations to find a solution...

AS the time drags on the status quo,which is effectively Partition,becomes more and more entrenched...That is what I mean by these fanatics b eing the real Partitionists...If you know for sure that a certain actions will result in stalemate,and if the stalemate will result in Partition,and you refuse to change course,you are a partitionist...In effect and in reality...

If you do not see my logic than we are talking about chalk and cheese...You are not helping the situation,because you are insisting on buttering their bread,giving them reason to think they might be right in their choice of actions....Cyprob will never be solved as long as our GC cousins refuse to accept the lions share of the blame for what has happened...And start showing some undeerstanding,empathy and compassion for the TC plight...If you want to help find a solution you should start telling them that...

You are a minority who stole our homes and lands! Your "plight" is to to rob the majority of its rights. You want empathy and compassion. Which to you are inseparable from 1960 equality & 1974 division. You can have neither. And if you think your tomorrow will be as illegal as yesterday, then I am afraid for you, and happy for me, you have no idea of the tsunami that is about to hit you.

[antifon]

Cypriots are a simple people. Simpletons some might say. That is how they survived over millennia, in the process preserving their Hellenic identity, minus a few who opted to side with the enemy.

As such they believe:

- RoC is invulnerable
- the illegal manufactured line can never be awarded a seal of approval
- gCypriot towns of Morphou, Lapithos, keryneia etc. will again be such
- talk of a possible BBF was the result of an illegal WAR waged against Cyprus

Cypriots will never agree on a BBF. NEVER. They are too smart for it, though I recognize the difficulties for our politicians.

tCypriots, the circa 10%-14% minority has limited options. Its time is running out. Turkey's time is also running out, where she will have to discuss soon her Cyprus logic with her own Kurds.

It is about time we tell our tCypriot compatriots, with love and honesty, that if they wish to command things to try their luck in Ankara. In Cyprus, Cypriots command and Cypriots want their Cypriot towns back, they want a unitary state where a minority cannot be allowed to whine so much.

More on my blog:
http://antifon.blogspot.com

A little reminder for your point of view re this BBF business AF...

Yep ... def, as you will know, agreed at the High Level Meetings/Agreements of 1977 and 1979 but agreements can be broken... by, amongst other things, subsequent actions and by lack of goodwill, by not entering into the underlying spirit of the agreements.

... and what better way of undermining those High Level Agreements than by Turkey and its Regime establishing, and supporting with billions of dollars since, the attempt at partition and annexation known as "trcn" in 1983???

When seen in this light, the High Level Agreements were clearly broken, and can therefore be declared as being NULL AND VOID.

Indeed true.

And there is no question RoC will be pursuing this route very soon as not only it is left with no other option but Turkish policy makes it easy for the RoC to support its case. The timing is the best it has been since 1974 in as far as the international community's disposition towards Cyprus. Events in Turkey itself, as I keep saying, will also play a defining role. This is what Kurds, Turkey's own ethnic minority circa 20%, are saying today:

“We want the process to be intervened in through civil politics, the democratic power of the people and civil-disobedience actions,”

“These demands are education in mother tongue, the release of political prisoners, an end to military and political operations [against Kurds] and the elimination of the 10 percent [election] threshold,”

“This is not a challenge. This is a demonstration of the determination of the people to not live with this problem in the year 2012 and to win their freedoms,”

More on my blog.

[Hermes]

Events in Turkey itself, as I keep saying, will also play a defining role. This is what Kurds, Turkey's own ethnic minority circa 20%, are saying today:

“We want the process to be intervened in through civil politics, the democratic power of the people and civil-disobedience actions,”

“These demands are education in mother tongue, the release of political prisoners, an end to military and political operations [against Kurds] and the elimination of the 10 percent [election] threshold,”

“This is not a challenge. This is a demonstration of the determination of the people to not live with this problem in the year 2012 and to win their freedoms,”

Indeed. An interesting development.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php? ... 2011-03-23

[antifon]

Events in Turkey itself, as I keep saying, will also play a defining role. This is what Kurds, Turkey's own ethnic minority circa 20%, are saying today:

“We want the process to be intervened in through civil politics, the democratic power of the people and civil-disobedience actions,”

“These demands are education in mother tongue, the release of political prisoners, an end to military and political operations [against Kurds] and the elimination of the 10 percent [election] threshold,”

“This is not a challenge. This is a demonstration of the determination of the people to not live with this problem in the year 2012 and to win their freedoms,”

Indeed. An interesting development.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php? ... 2011-03-23

Hermes, in fact it gets even more interesting.

A draft constitution recently proposed by the Turkish Industrialists and Businessmen's Association (TÜSİAD) has been welcomed by the ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party), while it drew criticism from the main opposition Republican People's Party (CHP) for seeking to amend the unchangeable articles of the Turkish Constitution.

TÜSİAD, one of Turkey's most influential business clubs, revealed the details of the draft document to the public at a press conference it called on Tuesday. One major proposal was that the article defining Turkey as a republic will be retained but that the remaining two articles can be changed. The first three articles of the Constitution define Turkey as a republic that is democratic, secular and a social state governed by the rule of law. The articles also define Turkish as the official language in Turkey and Ankara as its capital. The first three articles are irrevocable, and amendments to them cannot even be suggested, according to the current Constitution.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-239056- ... m-chp.html


NOW TELL ME, HOW IS THIS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT MAKARIOS TRIED TO DO IN 1963? TO PUT UP A DOCUMENT FOR DISCUSSION THAT CHANGES FUNDAMENTALLY THE CONSTITUTION OF THE COUNTRY?

IS ERDOGAN TURKEY'S MAKARIOS?

We must remember that a fundamental constitution change is nothing more than a revolution, as per our very own Aristotle.

I had written about this on my blog a while back. One such article follows:

Semantics in the way of an Aristotelian revolution?
http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/01/sem ... .html#more

[bill cobbett]

Events in Turkey itself, as I keep saying, will also play a defining role. This is what Kurds, Turkey's own ethnic minority circa 20%, are saying today:

“We want the process to be intervened in through civil politics, the democratic power of the people and civil-disobedience actions,”

“These demands are education in mother tongue, the release of political prisoners, an end to military and political operations [against Kurds] and the elimination of the 10 percent [election] threshold,”

“This is not a challenge. This is a demonstration of the determination of the people to not live with this problem in the year 2012 and to win their freedoms,”

Indeed. An interesting development.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php? ... 2011-03-23

Hermes, in fact it gets even more interesting.

A draft constitution recently proposed by the Turkish Industrialists and Businessmen's Association (TÜSİAD) has been welcomed by the ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party), while it drew criticism from the main opposition Republican People's Party (CHP) for seeking to amend the unchangeable articles of the Turkish Constitution.

TÜSİAD, one of Turkey's most influential business clubs, revealed the details of the draft document to the public at a press conference it called on Tuesday. One major proposal was that the article defining Turkey as a republic will be retained but that the remaining two articles can be changed. The first three articles of the Constitution define Turkey as a republic that is democratic, secular and a social state governed by the rule of law. The articles also define Turkish as the official language in Turkey and Ankara as its capital. The first three articles are irrevocable, and amendments to them cannot even be suggested, according to the current Constitution.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-239056- ... m-chp.html


NOW TELL ME, HOW IS THIS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT MAKARIOS TRIED TO DO IN 1963? TO PUT UP A DOCUMENT FOR DISCUSSION THAT CHANGES FUNDAMENTALLY THE CONSTITUTION OF THE COUNTRY?

IS ERDOGAN TURKEY'S MAKARIOS?

We must remember that a fundamental constitution change is nothing more than a revolution, as per our very own Aristotle.

I had written about this on my blog a while back. One such article follows:

Semantics in the way of an Aristotelian revolution?
http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/01/sem ... .html#more

Absolutely ... all Constitutions must be changeable, given a sufficient majority, to keep up with changing times and aspirations etc etc.

Just look at two examples which work, the Amendments to the US Constituition... or at the "unwritten" English Constitution, parts of which can be changed with a simple majority in the GB House of Commons.

[antifon]

Cypriots are a simple people. Simpletons some might say. That is how they survived over millennia, in the process preserving their Hellenic identity, minus a few who opted to side with the enemy.

As such they believe:

- RoC is invulnerable
- the illegal manufactured line can never be awarded a seal of approval
- gCypriot towns of Morphou, Lapithos, keryneia etc. will again be such
- talk of a possible BBF was the result of an illegal WAR waged against Cyprus

Cypriots will never agree on a BBF. NEVER. They are too smart for it, though I recognize the difficulties for our politicians.

tCypriots, the circa 10%-14% minority has limited options. Its time is running out. Turkey's time is also running out, where she will have to discuss soon her Cyprus logic with her own Kurds.

It is about time we tell our tCypriot compatriots, with love and honesty, that if they wish to command things to try their luck in Ankara. In Cyprus, Cypriots command and Cypriots want their Cypriot towns back, they want a unitary state where a minority cannot be allowed to whine so much.

More on my blog:
http://antifon.blogspot.com

A little reminder for your point of view re this BBF business AF...

Yep ... def, as you will know, agreed at the High Level Meetings/Agreements of 1977 and 1979 but agreements can be broken... by, amongst other things, subsequent actions and by lack of goodwill, by not entering into the underlying spirit of the agreements.

... and what better way of undermining those High Level Agreements than by Turkey and its Regime establishing, and supporting with billions of dollars since, the attempt at partition and annexation known as "trcn" in 1983???

When seen in this light, the High Level Agreements were clearly broken, and can therefore be declared as being NULL AND VOID.

See here bill cobbett:
http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/03/dec ... -void.html