Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

In our modern State, the intent of having enclaves is not segregation. Rather it is the integration of the seperate systems which presently exist. Nowhere in the Republic will there exist an exclusivity which limits residency. However, the Jurisdiction of the National Assemblies will have an implicit obligation as a majority (as well as explicit obligations as a Government) to represent their inclusiveness as a society; providing their services in a primary language first, but with the ability to sustain an equal service, for the special needs of the minorities that are amongst them.

Enclaves will mean more diversity in each culture, and as a whole, Cypriots can see themselves as a socialistic people. In the most cynical applications, enclaves will become development projects by these governmental authorities for a monetary gain much like profit. However, as communities they will still grow and distinguish themselves with their own unique identities.

Magnus and O (who knows my views already) my first choice is quite like your own, but in a practical sense our choices exclude this option. We are the Vanguard for a kind of social engineering, and it is with this objective that we must define bicommunal and bizonal, so that other (like Palestinians and Isrealis) adversaries may have a model from which they can emulate.

Enclaves does not mean a closed society with its barriers. It has more to do with quality of life, like a township, adding to the variety we have to our pusuit of happiness in our lives.

kurupetos, why would you choose partition? is there another choice that is better?

[kurupetos]

RW and the rest,

There is a difference between desirable (and just if you may) and feasible. If the CyProb is not solved soon the legalisation of the "TRNC" will be unavoidable. Right now I am waiting to see the outcome of the intercommunal talks. The rest is hot air.

[Muzzy70]

Repulse, why are you so obsessed with enclaves ?! Had the GC delegation at Geneva in 1974 had the bravery and foresight to accept Turkey's offer of a federal republic, with protected TC enclaves, then there would have been no need for such a post !. Have you read '30 Hot Days' by Mehmet Ali Birand ? It's an astonishing book about the events of 1974, and the intrigues surrounding Geneva are most revealing. Clerides apparently wanted to accept the Turkish offer (and was even quite warm about a straight federal partition with GC's living in the 'northern constituent state' under TC governance. Oh the irony !)

We will have one of three outcomes:

1: Partition, with two 'constituent states'.
2: Partition, with two separate states.
3: Partition, with a formal military border between the RoC and the Republic of Turkey. (In the event of a TC decision, post referendum, to unite with Turkey).

You're wasting you're time with Christofias about enclaves. I know that such a possible scenario has been ruled out of hand by the TC negotiating team and is not even on the radar.

'Remove your life jacket and everything will be allright'.

[repulsewarrior]

...interesting, because it is a "Turkish" suggestion, and from the replies, it does recieve support from Turkish Cypriots, and they believe that Greek Cypriots would never accept this proposal.

Just to be clear, there will be enclaves that are "Greek" in the north, and "Turkish" enclaves in the south. There will be two consitiuencies under the United Republic of Cyprus with the form of self-representation they choose, as equals, providing their particular majority an ability to sustain themselves over territory where they have this Jurisdiction. The island will not be torn in two, there is less threat of a militarised border, or for the annexation of a part of the island by an interlocutor, there will be a level of diversity in each society which will add to their vitality, services provided by these 'National Assemblies' will be available island wide. Each society, as Persons, will be able to build on their inclusiveness, because each will have amongst them minorities whose special needs they will provide for, and as Individuals, every citizen will have that protection, united with a State that is strong enough to defend their Rights and their Sovereignty as Cypriots.

[humanist]

none mate, one country for all of us.

[repulsewarrior]

...furthermore, I am obsessed with enclaves because:

1. the 'fait accompli' is an illegal occupation, and it is a demonstration of Intolerance at the Human level.

2. there is a Heritance, far too valuable to all Mankind, that is being dismissed.

3. the displaced, all of them, deserve their due, a recognition of their suffering, and this wrong, which is for at least some of them the Right to Return, as they were forced to leave, as communities.

4. the Settlers, and those that will be displaced, will gain Homes, rather than lose houses.

5. they are a useful function of political importance toward defining Bizonal, (for example) to the Palestinians if Isreal can emulate a Bicommunal nature with them.

6. Cyprus will have a rational development of its population growth where it, the island, remains the Principal to which we are all Stewards.

[repulsewarrior]

one is what we will have, the United Republic of Cyprus.

...but what will we do with it if as Individuals, we choose to be Persons as well.

[Phaliodi]

Dear Chistofias,
I'm very disappointed with your very biased view of the "Cyprus Problem". I would like to draw you attention to the fact that this problem did NOT start in 1974. Turkish Cypriots, who in your opinion are just a minority ethnic group, had been suffering between 1963 and 1974, in proportions that you can't even imagine. As a teenager during 1970's, I witnessed the cruelty of the Greek Cypriots against Turkish Cypriots. Don't forget that it was Greece that overthrew Makarios in 1974. You guys, never mention how many Greeks were killed during that coup. I was there. I witnessed how you guys killed each other and declared ENOSIS. You still expect us to trust you. In a "united" Cyprus, Turkish Cypriots will not have access to the same opportunities as Greeks. Firstly, they do not speak Greek. How will they get a decent job without language skills? I guess, that's not your problem. You need workers on building sites and people to collect rubbish anyway.
Secondly, there's no trust between communities. The two communities will be sitting on a time bomb. A small incident between a greek and turkish person or group will develop into a serious inter-communal struggle. And being in minority, Tc's will definitely have no chance. In other words, if there is no balance of power, there will be no peace.
The Greek Cypriots are not really serious about "Independent" Cyprus. If they were, they would not have Greek flags everywhere in Cyprus. All you guys want is to get rid of the Turkish "Occupation" Forces and then "negotiate" with T Cypriots. Do you think the Turkish Cypriots are stupid enough to negotiate with no "negotiating power". What about the Greek Army on your side anyway? Some of our leaders like Talat, in my opinion, are not very good in defending our rights. We may not even "like" some of the mainland Turks. But we don't trust the Greek Cypriots at all. This is not just my personal view. More than 75% of TCypriots have serious concerns about trusting the Greeks. If you guys like Turkish Cypriots so much, how come you hate mainland Turks so much? It's because you think Tcypriots are easy prey for you, unlike Turkey.
Anyway, good luck to you guys. Keep on sucking up to EU to pressure Erdogan (a western puppet in islamic disguise) to pull the troops out of Cyprus.

[repulsewarrior]

welcome Phliodi,

i cannot see what your letter has to do with the object of this thread. from reading "your letter" (mine was sent) my impression is that a United Cyprus is an elusive dream that you support. on the other hand the pessimism, and your critique of our leaders, be they Cypriot (talat and christofias) or turkish leaves me with the impression that your attitude is that of one who sees failure, conspiracy and impotence everywhere. Why not mention Americans and the British in your conspiracy as well? Why not mention the plutocracy that is International?

Being from Paphos, would you like to return? ...and if there is a United Republic of Cyprus, wouldn't our identity as Individuals add to the identity we have as Persons under the proposal which i have made (a strong central government and two National Assemblies)? Futuristcally, wouldn't the island's population change dramatically with the free movement of people from Europe, and with peace in the Middle East, and Africa free from the blights it now suffers, given that Global Warming does not end our living as we know it today?

i come from a mixed village where our lives were highly socialised having a culture of cooperation. my family suffered greatly because we did not leave with the coup. i may be "greek" in my origins but like the rest of the villagers we were attached to our land and the respect we all shared. my suggestion is to rethink your perspective so that the extremists who sought the plunder of our way of life are left without the satisfaction that they must enjoy from their present success.

good luck.

[EPSILON]

...which would you choose, enclaves or partition?

partition.

We just became 498678 in G/cs side supporting this