Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

...not Turkey, since the Army has been hobbled, but Erdogan, who wants a war with Europe, to turn full face against them, with the hope that the time is right to topple the power he sees over his own. there are many treacherous cliffs for Turkey, all of them can be avoided in the melee, if others will join in a war framed against "Bankers" or as a Middle Country against the power of the First World. and as a worst outcome, the small benefits which can be easily had through their return to hard work and responsible behaviour.

...timing is everything, many fuses abound, for things to go "Pop", or "Boom", what i know from the wikileaks of his behaviour, i am not alone in thinking he is this kind of psycho.

[Oceanside50]

i dont think Turkey can wage war against anyone other then a small country like Cyprus, at the moment. Like you said RW, Erdogan has handicapped the army in recent years with the jailing of senior officers. This could be the moment where we see major changes in Turkish policy on Cyprus, especially when Greece declares its EEZ and territorial waters in the Aegean and Mediterranean.

[repulsewarrior]

...after the next election in Turkey is where, IMO, the threat is highest. indeed, Erdogan can demonstrate a change of thinking, and i hope so because it is possible that he is a great Statesman, but at this trajectory he does not seem to have another exit if the bubble(s) burst, or if his blusters (continue to) fail; the potential is far more in favor of the EU, just because it is in this weakened state now, if it is better for it in the end.

given that the world moves in cycles, Turkey now intents to ride her wave.

[Oceanside50]

...after the next election in Turkey is where, IMO, the threat is highest. indeed, Erdogan can demonstrate a change of thinking, and i hope so because it is possible that he is a great Statesman, but at this trajectory he does not seem to have another exit if the bubble(s) burst, or if his blusters (continue to) fail; the potential is far more in favor of the EU, just because it is in this weakened state now, if it is better for it in the end.

given that the world moves in cycles, Turkey now intents to ride her wave.

When Erdogan came onto the scene about 10 years ago he was thought of as a pragmatic Islamist statesman who wanted Turkey pointed in the direction of the European Union, kind of a contradiction in terms if you think about it. But he managed to silence and imprison most of the high ranking Kemalist Generals/Admirals in the Turkish armed forces,many have said on trumped up charges and accusations, who could of imagined this happening 10 years ago, just after the Generals imposed a so called soft coup against the previous Islamist Prime Minister. Then turns around and calls for reforms in the Turkish constitution where he hopes it will be more liberal and civil and European. Recently he called Zionism a crime against humanity and one of his ambassadors and close friends, in Africa, denied that Al-Queda is a terrorist organization because terrorism is not an Islamic ideal. A few years ago he loosened restrictions on the Orthodox Patriarche and a seminary school in Constantinople and allowed a minority(Armenian or Jewish not sure which) to be able to reclaim their properties that were confiscated by the Turks in past years. Contradictions abound with this guy. Someone once said, that the cardinal responsibility of leadership is to identify the dominant contradiction at each point of the historical process and to work out a central line to resolve it. Erdogan is becoming a master at this, while pulling the Turks(Kemalist,Islamists) in the direction that he wishes, which is toward a more European Turkey.

[bill cobbett]

This is part of how Ekathimerini reports today's meeting between the Greek PM Samaras and Turkish PM Erdogan and what they had to say about the Aegean...

..."The issue of oil and gas exploration in the Aegean was high on the agenda and both leaders made brief references to it after Athens and Ankara recently sent diplomatic notes to the United Nations to complain about the other side’s stance on the issue. Samaras expressed his administration’s intention to set up an exclusive economic zone (EEZ), with full respect for the Law of the Sea. Erdogan responded cautiously, noting that the two men “discussed how we can make joint moves and shared opinions about win-win steps in the eastern Mediterranean.”...

Believe this is an indication that Kyrios Samaras is holding out for on an UNCLOS-max EEZ in the Aegean.

[Demonax]

This is part of how Ekathimerini reports today's meeting between the Greek PM Samaras and Turkish PM Erdogan and what they had to say about the Aegean...

..."The issue of oil and gas exploration in the Aegean was high on the agenda and both leaders made brief references to it after Athens and Ankara recently sent diplomatic notes to the United Nations to complain about the other side’s stance on the issue. Samaras expressed his administration’s intention to set up an exclusive economic zone (EEZ), with full respect for the Law of the Sea. Erdogan responded cautiously, noting that the two men “discussed how we can make joint moves and shared opinions about win-win steps in the eastern Mediterranean.”...

Believe this is an indication that Kyrios Samaras is holding out for on an UNCLOS-max EEZ in the Aegean.

I do believe signing up to the UNCLOS is part of the EU acquis. Shouldn't the EU remind Candidate Erdogan of this salient fact?

[bill cobbett]

This is part of how Ekathimerini reports today's meeting between the Greek PM Samaras and Turkish PM Erdogan and what they had to say about the Aegean...

..."The issue of oil and gas exploration in the Aegean was high on the agenda and both leaders made brief references to it after Athens and Ankara recently sent diplomatic notes to the United Nations to complain about the other side’s stance on the issue. Samaras expressed his administration’s intention to set up an exclusive economic zone (EEZ), with full respect for the Law of the Sea. Erdogan responded cautiously, noting that the two men “discussed how we can make joint moves and shared opinions about win-win steps in the eastern Mediterranean.”...

Believe this is an indication that Kyrios Samaras is holding out for on an UNCLOS-max EEZ in the Aegean.

I do believe signing up to the UNCLOS is part of the EU acquis. Shouldn't the EU remind Candidate Erdogan of this salient fact?

Yes agreed, it's a condition of closing the Energy Chapter of the Accession Process.

[bill cobbett]

Err... we've all seen the maps of the CY EEZ showing the exploration blocks to the south and south-east of the Island, all nicely marked out.

This would seem to have left the matter of the CY EEZ in CY's northern waters undetermined... 'til we consider this Law of the Republic, Law No. 64 of 2004, which makes reference specifically to the waters between CY and Turkey and in which it refers to claiming its UNCLOS-max EEZ even in situations where no agreement has been reached with opposite countries. CY has as a consequence of this Law claimed an all-round EEZ... to all points south, east, west as well as north! ... "in principle"

This is part of a letter sent to the UN last year and lodged with the UNCLOS Registry which refers to it...

[repulsewarrior]

@ Oceanside; we may hope that this man will give the other Leadership in Europe the courage to look at the facets that make up the European face. he has not done much to remove the tarnish on Turkey that his Party has made, although such twisted speech gives rise to the questions, Zionist-Jew, Christian-European, Terrorist-Islam, Occidental-Oriental (remember him inviting Native Americans to visit Turkey; they are both from China: brothers), it is nothing more than news to feed an electorate that is ready to die proud, for internal consumption, this food for thought can go both ways. everyone is made up of the same flaws, it is why transference works so well when it comes to spreading guilt, and with it hatred.

beside the EEZ with Greece, there are the Syrians, the Kurds, Iraq, never mind the Armenians, the Greek Orthodox Church, and the Cypriots who demonstrate remarkable Patience and restraint. and no, i didn't forget Israel...

only a genius could run a country, like Turkey, with so many pots on the fire, with an economy no one dares to scrutinise, and a significant body of this population fanatical as he who support him. but with Europe it is another matter, the war is far more subtle, if he cannot make it "better", i think he intends to take it down.

...hope your right; in the sense that Turkey should continue to join with the west to beat at our perceptions so that they can become more refined, lovingly against the efforts made to deny that the west to be whole is Muslim, too. afterall, there is One God, isn't there?

@ my Gig, look at the map, Europe wins, Cyprus is the fulcrum, Greece against Turkey or Turkey against Greece, it is a lever. otherwise it is two big sticks that are equal. splitting Cyprus, for warring parties of course, is ideal leaving it impotent, war there, as though Cypriots do not exist. the gesture was Mankind's, that created Cyprus, it was born from new beginnings with the Modern Age, for Peace. i hope that we can remember the vision of the Men before these moments who sacrificed their lives for us to understand that war is not terrible, and hate is good, but against real enemies, not each other; Lest We Forget. at this point a new frontier is opening, (we are talking Gaz here but generally, the Information Age) and Turkey is very late, if Greece is quick enough (and Europe is willing).

[GreekIslandGirl]

In retrospect, Greece was right to hold off earlier (1970s) declarations, after testing the waters. The British, despite selfishly supporting Greece's position in secret ( as it suited their own position regarding islands having continental shelves) were nevertheless too cowardly to support Greece in public because they did not want to lose diplomatic ties with Turkey. They even made derogatory remarks about the French, for goodness sake, because the French did openly support Greece for being on the right side of the law. The Brits claimed the Greeks always "overplay their hand" in such matters. Well, Greece backed off when Turkey demanded more over Cyprus. Consequently, they didn't overplay their hand in 1978 but went on to garner more support. Hence why Greece joined the EU and pulled Cyprus into its fold - a price the Hellenic people have been paying for dearly as those who give the support want their rewards too. So hopefully now is the right time - with the full backing of the EU since these are now the EU's borders too!

It's all there in "Britain and Cyprus. Key themes and Documents since World War II" " by Mallinson