Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

Im in the TRNC.

I know you were in TrashNcan


My question was how come you two were absent at exactly the same hours? Did you go to some office together to get further instructions?

[boulio]

VP the problem however is how much land returned for recognition.in my opinion it would need to be more than the ap5.Also what about properties in the north and south?compenstion at todays prices?what about the security aspect of a new deal?your thoughts would be appreciated.

[Pyrpolizer]

VP the problem however is how much land returned for recognition.in my opinion it would need to be more than the ap5.Also what about properties in the north and south?compenstion at todays prices?what about the security aspect of a new deal?your thoughts would be appreciated.

bulio you just answered to VP what is needed to get their "recognition": It is precisely your own thoughts. By the minute such a proposal for an agreed partition gets on the table officially from us, the occupied will be recognized.Then they will drag on the negotiations for eternity and we will never get anything- not an inch of land back let aside having donated 37% of our country and our wealth to Turkey.

Not even the Turks were ever so naive to propose official partition...

[repulsewarrior]

...boulio, wouldn't it be nice if the Cypriot Constituencies (Turkish and Greek) could dicker out their respective Territorial Jurisdictions if above their authority there is a Republic of Cyprus which represents all its Citizens as Sovereign, and as Individuals, like in any other State, as equals and without any distinction or discrimination? it is possible, and moreso better serves the needs and desires of this island's dwellers. Bicommunal is not a dirty word, and it does not mean tearing the island in two. you may want Cyprus divided (somehow), but do you want our Basic Rights, Your Individual Rights, reduced to a question of ethnicity, because as a Person you are "Greek" or "Turk"? i like to remember that above all we are members of a single "race" called Humanity, and i suspect that you do too.

Bicommunal requires three governing bodies, at least. and if there is a Republic, as well as a Turkish Constituency, there should exist a Greek Constituency. what you prove is that this willingness to discuss Jurisdictions exists. it is not so difficult, as we can see, without or outside the question of Statehood, if our Freedom is secured because we are united as Human Beings, to better that which we defend as Individuals, Universal Principals, and the Liberty we seek as Persons should not be confused as being one in the same.

vp wants the discussion to unfold as though only "Greeks" and "Turks" exist, as though Cyprus and Cypriots do not exist, if this is what you want, so be it, everyone is entitled to their opinion, if not you are seeking Liberty without Freedom.

[boulio]

gentlemen its just a hypothetical question to vp,however dont be so certain everyone wants to live with each other.or share things for that matte ie govt,land etc etc.

[Pyrpolizer]

gentlemen its just a hypothetical question to vp,however dont be so certain everyone wants to live with each other.or share things for that matte ie govt,land etc etc.

Hypothetical or not this is what VP was trying to pass in here for ages. Why are you helping embed such a catastrophic idea?
I don't have illusions in my head. I know for a fact there are many one both sides perhaps 50-50 who despise the other "race" and don't want to live together as you put it.

The FACT is we have no other choice. We can't vanish each other. We are thousands and thousands of humans. In a united cyprus either you are a GC or TC you will still have to work your ass to earn your living. The government will be mixed but still the people in the government will be working to earn their salary. Living together doesn't mean we will get married together. We will just live and work in the same place under a common government. Those who will run our fates are their and our elitists. The Cyprus problem was ALWAYS a fight among the elitists who unfortunately managed to drag stupid masses along with them.

For me there is absolutely no problem if instead of be ruled completely by my elitists I will be ruled by a a mixture of elitists. You know why?
Because I am not one of them, and neither are 99% of the people.

[CopperLine]

Recognition is not something decided by GCs, although GCs will surely not recognise the state in the north. Each state across the world may decide for itself whether or not to recognise the TRNC. It is a political decision and not a legally determined decision. Sure there are decisions which are more or less likely to encourage or discourage states from extending recognition, such as Security Council resolutions, but the UNSC does not in itself define what is legal or unlawful.

The basic story is that GCS have been very effective in ensuring that the ball doesn't even start rolling, having moved as far as recognition from one state, Turkey. But if the ball were to restart and gain momentum then there is little that the RoC could do to stop it. That is why RoC's entry into the EU, without the acquis for the north was critical.

In direct response to VP the answer is that there is no magic or critical number for recognition. See the Palestine and Kosovo cases for very different results from very different numbers (and very different processes).

[CopperLine]

There are many reasons as to why the TCs cannot claim these properties as if you didn't know. Here are few.

1. Many of the original owners, parents/grand parents are dead with the deeds still in their names.

2. The heirs to the parents/grand parents property have not gone trough probate in the RoC in order to have their parents/grand parents property to be placed in their names, therefore the future heirs cannot take any property in the south belonging to their parents/grand parents.

3. Many of the TCs gave their parents/grand parents deeds to their property in the south to the "trnc" (Turkey) in order to receive stolen GCs property in the north and are now caught in a trap of becoming "Double Dipping", which the north's authorities (Turkey) will not take it too kindly if the TCs attempted to get their (parents/grand parents) properties in the south, even if they could, because once they have received stolen GC properties in the north, they have voluntarily have given up their rights to those properties in the south, even though the RoC does not recognise it, but the TCs in the north will be punished severely by the "trnc" if they dared "Double Dipping". They will not be able to return back to the north for the threat of being prosecuted.

4. Any TC who were in Cyprus in 1974 at the time of the invasion by Turkey are not eligible to have their properties in the south returned to them by the RoC until a settlement is reached, even if the heirs had gone through probate in the RoC of their parents/grand parents properties. Only those TCs who were not in Cyprus in 1974 at the time of the Turkish invasion can have their parents/grand parents properties returned once they have gone trough probate or that they were the sole heirs which does not require probate but documents to satisfy the court in the RoC that he/she is the sole heir.

Spot on. Thanks for this informative post.

[Maximus]

Recognition is not something decided by GCs, although GCs will surely not recognise the state in the north. Each state across the world may decide for itself whether or not to recognise the TRNC. It is a political decision and not a legally determined decision. Sure there are decisions which are more or less likely to encourage or discourage states from extending recognition, such as Security Council resolutions, but the UNSC does not in itself define what is legal or unlawful.

The basic story is that GCS have been very effective in ensuring that the ball doesn't even start rolling, having moved as far as recognition from one state, Turkey. But if the ball were to restart and gain momentum then there is little that the RoC could do to stop it. That is why RoC's entry into the EU, without the acquis for the north was critical.

In direct response to VP the answer is that there is no magic or critical number for recognition. See the Palestine and Kosovo cases for very different results from very different numbers (and very different processes).

what was done cant gain recognition, you cant recognise what is being done today, you cant recognise what they will do to gain recognition tomorrow. its all unrecognizable stuff, that's why no one else recognises it and that's why it will probably never be recognised.

[Viewpoint]

You are only fooling your selves Maxi if all the countries in the world decided to recognize the TRNC how can you stop them? Theres noting you can do.